investor

Amanda Drobnis, "Miracle Cure for Race Horses"

Amanda Drobnis has a technology that facilitates the use of tissue from animal placentas to regenerate tissue in other animals. The procedure, known as a placental allograft, is gaining acceptance in human medicine. Amanda plans to translate that trend to the veterinary space.

I met Amanda at a mentoring session at The Capital Network (TCN), a really valuable institution that helps founders and investors.

Click here to read a transcript of this episode.

Some of the highlights of the interview include:

  • Intro and a Shout Out to The Capital Network

  • How Amanda Discovered What She Wanted to Do in Life

  • Regenerative Technology in Use in Human Medicine Being Applied to the Animal Space

  • “…this therapy in particular is really interesting because it has all of the proteins and all of the properties to regenerate tissue, and we can now have the technology to use it at a room temperature.”

  • “…almost no chance of [tissue] rejection”

  • Creating a New Source of Recurring Revenue for Vets

  • “…you already have a population of veterinarians and influencers that understand the value of the product…”

  • Some Research Will Be Needed

  • Amanda’s Father Is an Entrepreneurial Physician Who Has Invented the Technology

  • Amanda’s Experience with TCN

  • Horseback Riding Teaches Important Lessons

  • Amanda Thinks Her Business Could Grow to Annual Sales of $20 million

  • It Even Re-Grows Hair at the Wound Site!


Transcript of “Miracle Cure for Race Horses”

GUEST: AMANDA DROBNIS

SAL DAHER: Welcome to Angel Invest Boston, conversations with Boston's most interesting angel investors and founders. I'm Sal Daher, and my goal for this podcast is to learn more about building successful new companies. The best way I can think of doing this is by talking to people who are doing it, people such as founder Amanda Drobnis.

Amanda, thanks for being on the podcast.

AMANDA DROBNIS: Thanks for having me.

SAL DAHER: Awesome, welcome to our studio.

Intro and a Shout Out to The Capital Network

I met Amanda at a pitch workshop put together by The Capital Network. By the way, let me just say a few words about The Capital Network, it is just an outstanding organization here in Boston that really helps ... It's a great resource for founders, it's also a great resource for angel investors, it's a good place for us to look at the farm team, so to speak, the guys who are just starting out and getting ready.

And in that crew, Amanda stood out as someone who was really unusually ready for prime time, with her pitch and self-confidence and idea, and I thought it might be nice to have her on. And once again, great shout out for The Capital Network, TCN, and Marie Meslin and company.

So, Amanda, you studied animal science, and then you went on to work for Big Pet Food, PetSmart for five years, and then after that you went out into a distribution business in the veterinary science, animal health space. And now you are attempting to commercialize a technology in your company, Hilltop Biosciences.

How Amanda Discovered What She Wanted to Do in Life

Let's just step back a little bit, this is a standing question that we have on the podcast, we always ask this as a starting question: Go back to the moment when you discovered what it is that you really wanted to be doing in your life.

AMANDA DROBNIS: That's a great question. The moment I discovered what I really wanted to do was ... There's been several of them. Originally, I really wanted to be a veterinarian, and I did go to school for animal science, to maybe accomplish that. Then I pivoted and decided I actually really enjoyed business and marketing, so I went on to work for PetSmart, like you said. And then when I started my distribution company is when I realized that was something I really wanted to do, was to run the operations and to run the business and to, in the future, do some more startups.

And then along this journey in the last six months at The Capital Network I've actually really solidified my decision to be a founder, and to really step into this role. It's been a great learning experience.

SAL DAHER: Tremendous. Tell us about Hilltop Biosciences, and what you're doing.

Regenerative Technology in Use in Human Medicine Being Applied to the Animal Space

AMANDA DROBNIS: We are providing therapies to regenerate and restore full functionality after injury for animals, as well as maintenance solutions for long term animal health. We're taking the human technology of amniotic membrane and fluid, and bringing it to the veterinary space to help them with orthopedic injuries, ophthalmic injuries, so eye ulcers, and many different other indications.

SAL DAHER: Right. And you always have the question, “Why you?” Why are you gonna be successful at distributing this technology?

AMANDA DROBNIS: I have a lot of experience in the veterinary space, I also have someone on the human allograft side, my father has built a business and is one of the inventors on the human allograft side of things, and so he has allowed us to take this technology and bring it to the veterinary side, but he's also supporting me and teaching me all of the ways that you need to grow this business.

SAL DAHER: Excellent, so the moat here is that you have this technology that's successful with humans, and you have exclusive rights to its application in the animal space.

AMANDA DROBNIS: That's correct.

SAL DAHER: And it's proven successful with humans, and competitors cannot have access to this. Tell us a little bit about that technology that sets it apart from other methods of getting the material from the animal placenta that is so useful in helping to heal injuries.

“…this therapy in particular is really interesting because it has all of the proteins and all of the properties to regenerate tissue, and we can now have the technology to use it at a room temperature.”

AMANDA DROBNIS: There's lots of other regenerative therapies out there, but this therapy in particular is really interesting because it has all of the proteins and all of the properties to regenerate tissue, and we can now have the technology to use it at a room temperature. So it's easy for the veterinarian to grab off the shelf and use it the same day as diagnosis.

A lot of the other regenerative therapies out there right now require you to collect the tissue and send it off to a lab, or for the veterinarian to be the lab technician in the field, they have to have specialized equipment to do certain things. And so those technologies, while they're great and they work, this is a much better option, it's a time saver for the veterinarian, but then it also helps heal those wounds, whether it's an orthopedic injury or an actual superficial wound, in almost half the time as some of the other options out there.

SAL DAHER: Yes. And how about tissue rejection, is that a problem with this?

“…almost no chance of [tissue] rejection”

AMANDA DROBNIS:  That's a good question. The tissue, placenta and amniotic fluid, is HLA antigen free, so therefore there's minimal, almost no chance of rejection from where you're putting that tissue.

SAL DAHER: Excellent. So basically your father's patent is on a process that allows you to produce the vital ingredients of this in room temperature, to store it in room temperature, so it's helpful in making the process more effective. That's the breakthrough that will help set your company apart from potential competitors. In the field, there are competitors out there ... I guess you would be creating a profitable sideline for the vets.

AMANDA DROBNIS: That's correct, yes. It's creating-

SAL DAHER: Make it convenient, right?

Creating a New Source of Recurring Revenue for Vets

AMANDA DROBNIS: Yes, you're making it convenient for them, they can have higher margins with this product, so it's a good opportunity for them to change their business model just a little bit in having this off-the-shelf product, that they don't have to keep going back to that horse, or that animal, and treating it several times. Typically, with this, it's just one injection, one or two injections, or one or two pieces of membrane. So it's very easy for them to use, and therefore it makes it easier for them to take on this idea.

SAL DAHER: So, to clarify, you have two modes of delivery. Either it can be infused, the active ingredients infused, into a membrane, or they can be injected.

AMANDA DROBNIS: That's correct.

SAL DAHER: So, what are your thoughts about going to market? How do you plan to reach out to the vets and to get them to use this?

AMANDA DROBNIS: We have already an established network of most of our key opinion leaders and early adopters in the veterinary, specifically horse space to start off, and we have our contacts within the three major distribution channels. So our goal is to use our distribution channels, direct sales, and through our major contacts for key opinion leaders, to really drive the early adoption.

And this is a recurring revenue product, so we want our vets to stock it on their shelves and use it for a variety of indications, and that means that, if they use it three times, the next month maybe, hopefully, they'll use it for five times. So really our goal is to increase their use of it on a regular basis.

SAL DAHER: Excellent. Really how large is the market for this?

AMANDA DROBNIS: We think the equine regenerative market is about a $500 million market, which is a subset of the 17 billion-dollar US veterinary care market. So it's a fairly large market for horses, and then an even larger market in small animal.

SAL DAHER: Right. Are you selling the product, or are you selling a workflow for the vet to produce the product?

AMANDA DROBNIS: No, so we're selling the product.

SAL DAHER: The product, okay.

AMANDA DROBNIS: And we have done several cases showing its efficacy, but we're pre-revenue at this point, we've just done samples.

SAL DAHER: But you've had tests on using your process, and it's been successful in treating the horses.

AMANDA DROBNIS: Yes, we did do some beta testing to prove its efficacy, and that our vets would use it and reach for it on a regular basis. And it did have a very high success rate.

SAL DAHER: Tell the story of how you discovered this idea of using placental allografts.

AMANDA DROBNIS: The first part of that story is that I ended up having one of the first injections for these allografts in my hip, because I couldn't ride anymore, and horseback riding is a big thing for me. My father worked with a manufacturing company at the time, so we decided to inject my hip. And it's been seven years, and I still feel great.

About a year after my injection I reached out to the manufacturing company I was working for, and asked them if we could bring this into the placental allograft, into the equine community for horses, because my horse had an injury to her hind leg that wasn't healing. So that's how this whole idea about five years ago came to be.

SAL DAHER: Okay. So you had human treatment, and then you thought, “Oh, my horse is having problems, so now ... Why aren't we doing this with the horses, and using my dad's technology and so forth?”

AMANDA DROBNIS: That's exactly what happened. So we did eventually use it for my horse, but it's been a long journey since that happened.

“…you already have a population of veterinarians and influencers that understand the value of the product…”

SAL DAHER: So, you already have a population of veterinarians and influencers that understand the value of the product, and you have a connection with them because you've been in the distribution business before. So what do you think are gonna be the obstacles to getting adoption to this?

AMANDA DROBNIS: We have thought through quite a bit of what the obstacles would be, and we've spoken to a lot of our veterinarians to determine what they would see as an obstacle for using this. And mostly it comes down to research and to prove ... While it's proven for those indications on the human side, they really wanna see those same studies on the animal side.

SAL DAHER: Okay, so basically it would be to get these studies to the animal FDA, that's not exactly what it's called, what is it called that's-

AMANDA DROBNIS: You can call it the veterinary FDA. We don't need to get specific approval for some of our products, but other products have to go through the same veterinary FDA, that we would have to do those research trials. But our veterinarians still want, regardless of whether there's the need for the veterinary FDA, our veterinarians still wanna see that it has some sort of third-party research.

SAL DAHER: Research proving that ... So it's a little bit of cart before the horse, so how do you plan to get that and launch your business at the same time?

Some Research Will Be Needed

AMANDA DROBNIS: Within our contacts are quite a number of veterinary schools that are interested in working with us to do the research for us, and then we also have several veterinarians outside of the veterinary schools that are willing to work with us, to start doing further research.

SAL DAHER: What's the time range in these research studies?

AMANDA DROBNIS: Some of them will be short, maybe six months, others will be two to three years. It really just depends on what type of indication we're looking at to start off.

SAL DAHER: Okay, so your thought would be some of these early studies might give results, and these results then will allow you to start bootstrapping the company, getting some sales in, because I suppose the vet schools will do the research, but you probably have to give them some contribution.

AMANDA DROBNIS: Yeah, you do have to pay for some of the studies, yes. But our first study is really looking at what all of the proteins are that are in the fluid, so that we can really educate our veterinarians why this works. Not just that it works, but why it works.

SAL DAHER: So, mechanism of action.

AMANDA DROBNIS: Yes, mechanism of action, what proteins are in there to really help regenerate that tissue. So that's a quick study, it's not gonna take us very long, and that'll be our first sales point for them. And then, going into the next few studies, we'll work on shorter studies so that we can start having more research, and then be able to further bootstrap the company in the future.

Amanda’s Father Is an Entrepreneurial Physician Who Has Invented the Technology

SAL DAHER: Excellent. So your dad's an entrepreneur.

AMANDA DROBNIS: Yes, he is.

SAL DAHER: He's a physician and an entrepreneur.

AMANDA DROBNIS: Yes, he's definitely been a driving force for that. He had his own practice, he's built several practices, several businesses, and always been running his own thing, and it really introduced that concept to me, that I could run my own business. And then my mom too, she also has had several of her own businesses that she's run, so I think it might run in the family.

SAL DAHER: I think back ... Like Bryanne Leeming, who was the founder of Unruly Studios, her family, they're entrepreneurs. Alice Lewis, her father is an entrepreneur, and I think her mother as well, but at least her father is an entrepreneur. Sometimes it comes out of the blue, Sean Eldridge of Gain Life, which is some episodes back, his family, there are no entrepreneurs anywhere to be seen, and yet he decided after a career in large corporate life to start a company, and is doing something very near to my heart, helping people with their health and so on.

Amanda’s Experience with TCN

Very good. Tell us a little bit about the experience you had with TCN [The Capital Network].

AMANDA DROBNIS: That's been an excellent experience. I really went into TCN and didn't quite know anything about the startup community. I knew what I was doing, but I didn't know how to get anywhere. All of their programs ... I can't even express my gratitude for how much those programs have helped me learn the process of starting a company, and then reaching out for funding, and how to meet funders and angel investors in the community. It's been a most amazing program, I can't thank them enough.

I have a female founder scholarship from them, and so that's a great program as well because it really encourages more female founders, which I think is fabulous. And then I got to know all of these other female founders. So overall I can't speak highly enough of that program, it's been excellent.

SAL DAHER: I love them. Marie's [Marie Meslin] wonderful.

AMANDA DROBNIS: She is.

SAL DAHER: And the whole team. It's interesting, they run a whole gamut, from having these events, these pitch competitions and so forth, and then they also have classes on your cap table, your capitalization table, how you calculate people's ownership before the investment, after, pre-money, post-money and all that technical sort of thing. People get tangled up, believe me, cap table is not your business, your business is being out there, developing this new thing. So they help you avoid tripping on your shoelaces, more or less. I love that group, I've participated in quite a few of their events, The Capital Network.

AMANDA DROBNIS: And they help introduce us to people like you.

SAL DAHER: Yeah-

AMANDA DROBNIS: All networking, it's great.

SAL DAHER: Yeah, I really enjoyed the panel that Christopher Mirable shared, and I participated in. I've also shared a panel on fundraising and so forth. Because it is such a hard thing. I think every raise ... There are a lot of common elements to fundraising, but I think every raise is different. Because you have to assemble your set of investors.

Frequently people forget, a lot of what fundraising is about is identifying your lead investor. When you find the lead investor, you find that person who can write a substantial check and has the knowledge to negotiate terms for the deal, that's like half the battle. And then after, it's sort of like rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat. But I would really advise anybody who's fundraising to keep that in the back of their minds.

It is entirely possible to have a raise without a lead investor, club deals, but those are painful because you're setting the terms and so forth, you're kind of in the wilderness. And I'm sure at TCN, at The Capital Network, they've emphasized the importance of having a lead investor.

AMANDA DROBNIS: Yes, they have. Every one of their programs has emphasized the lead, so it's a big idea, and I'm looking forward to finding my lead in the future.

SAL DAHER: Where did you grow up?

AMANDA DROBNIS: I grew up in Warwick, Rhode Island. And then I moved on to Vermont for school, I went to UVM, and then moved out to Arizona for PetSmart, and then back here.

SAL DAHER: Tell me about your horseback riding, because I know horses are a big part of your life.

AMANDA DROBNIS: They are a big part of my life. I started riding when I was about four or five, and I've been riding ever since with occasional breaks here and there. But when I was in high school, I really became dedicated to the sport, and started riding in North Kingstown with a wonderful person who I called my second mom at the time. She was awesome, she really encouraged my riding. And I still ride today.

SAL DAHER: That's wonderful, I have a cousin who loves to ride. I don't think she moves anywhere without her horse.

AMANDA DROBNIS: Yes.

SAL DAHER: So dedicated to riding.

So, what do you find ... Horseback riding, what does that do about your perspective on life?

Horseback Riding Teaches Important Lessons

AMANDA DROBNIS: It's very humbling. You learn to get right back on. You can fail, and that's okay, you learn that you'll heal and you'll get back up, and you'll start going again. Which I think is great for entrepreneurship and sales. It's okay to fail, and it's okay to learn a lesson, and to start over.

SAL DAHER: Literally, the metaphor of getting back on the horse.

AMANDA DROBNIS: Literally.

SAL DAHER: You get thrown, or you fall ... And I suppose it's also you're dealing with a force of nature, this extremely powerful animal, and yet you're managing to control, to a certain extent, and to figure out what's going on, to read what the animal's doing, and so on. So I think people who ride have a particular understanding of the environment around them because of that.

AMANDA DROBNIS: Yeah, and it teaches us to be very clear with our requests. This is what I want, and I want this now, and I don't take no for an answer, so we're gonna work-

SAL DAHER: [crosstalk 00:18:12].

AMANDA DROBNIS: There's no ambiguity, this is what I want and we are doing this now. So it's certainly taught me to be very clear with what I'm looking for.

SAL DAHER: That reminds me of a story of a teacher who became very successful, and then he was asked, “The method you have for teaching the students, where did you learn this?” “I got this book on dog training. You apply dog training techniques to students-”

AMANDA DROBNIS: It works!

SAL DAHER: “And it really works!” Reward, punishment, all that.

AMANDA DROBNIS: Yes, clear and crisp, and it's quick.

SAL DAHER: Clear directions, repeat, repeat, repeat, patience and so forth. Our animal nature, we're all animals.

AMANDA DROBNIS: We are.

SAL DAHER: I think we get a little bit ahead of ourselves, thinking that we're beyond being an animal, but our animal nature is very much there all the time.

AMANDA DROBNIS: Absolutely, we still have our instincts.

SAL DAHER: Yeah, amazing. So give me a picture of what Hilltop Biosciences could be once you have the studies done. What size business could this grow to?

AMANDA DROBNIS: That's a great question. It can grow tremendously because, not only would we be able to work within the equine, the horse community here in the U.S., but then there's large horse communities that don't have this technology yet out in the world. The Middle East, Asia, and Europe all have large horse communities with high-level performance horses.

And then after that, you can grow into the small animals, that's dog and cat, and future into even potentially food animals to help limit their antibiotics used, when they have a wound you can easily heal it without worrying about it. So there's a lot of opportunities to scale the business into different industries.

SAL DAHER: What's your guess at the size of the business, if it's just working horses, or show horses and so on?

AMANDA DROBNIS: If it's just working horses in the U.S., we're looking at a five million dollar to 10-million-dollar business.

SAL DAHER: That's yearly revenue.

AMANDA DROBNIS: Yearly revenue, yes. If we scale into other animals, you're probably doubling that.

Amanda Thinks Her Business Could Grow to Annual Sales of $20 million

SAL DAHER: So, it could be a 20-million-dollar business if you penetrate the market thoroughly and so forth.

AMANDA DROBNIS: Correct.

SAL DAHER: And you maintain your competitive advantage through having a more effective work process and so forth.

AMANDA DROBNIS: Yes.

SAL DAHER: Any guesses as to how long it would take you to build that kind of business?

AMANDA DROBNIS: We expect to build up to five million dollars in sales within five years.

SAL DAHER: Within five years, okay. Forward-looking statement, that's a prospective, it's not-

AMANDA DROBNIS: Yes.

SAL DAHER: Nobody's guaranteeing this, you just think that that might be. In previous podcasts I've made this point, Eisenhower said, “Plans are nothing, planning is everything.”

AMANDA DROBNIS: Very true.

SAL DAHER: Projections are nothing, making projections is really important. Because you have to have your five-year projections. So you think you could be at five million dollars in five years.

AMANDA DROBNIS: Our projections right now are seven million in five years.

SAL DAHER: Seven million in five years, okay. This is really wonderful. So your dad developed this technology, and he has a business providing these things to humans. So tell me a little bit about his business, how he came about that.

AMANDA DROBNIS: He's a foot and ankle physician, and he had one of the ... He used the membranes for some of the first few diabetic, non-healing wounds, and he published one of the most recent papers on diabetic non-healing wounds, and now that's a huge industry. And amniotic membranes have become the standard of care for that.

So once he wrote that paper, it's been a different journey for him with some different companies, but he has worked with a variety of different inventors to come up with this product. So not only was he a physician and he saw its usefulness in non-healing wounds, but then he started to use it for non-healing bone injuries, or tendon and ligament injuries, and so he's seen its progression and its ability to heal rapidly.

And then he started speaking about it, and now he is the CEO of one of the placental allograft companies in Florida.

SAL DAHER: Excellent. I'll consider that for my own joint problems. Tremendous. So, Amanda, please tell us a little bit about the science of what you're doing.

AMANDA DROBNIS: Placental allografts have all of your proteins and all of the properties that help regenerate tissue-

SAL DAHER: What is an allograft?

AMANDA DROBNIS: Great question, an allograft is tissue that is from another donor. In this case, we take placenta and amniotic fluid from another donor, and then we can use it-

SAL DAHER: So it's human to human, horse to horse, dog to dog. But in this case we're talking about-

AMANDA DROBNIS: In this case we're human. So we're gonna take that placenta and that amniotic fluid from a C-section, we're gonna clean it and test it, make sure that there's nothing in it, and it has all of the proteins that grow that baby. So we're then gonna take that, which was usually waste, and bring it to regenerate tissue.

Those proteins, not to go into too much science, but those proteins are collagen, hyaluronic acid, growth factors, all of the things that you see on a regular basis, you see collagen for wrinkles. There's lots of collagen in this product that helps regenerate and prevent wrinkles, if you were to be talking about the face or any part of the body. So it has those properties to really help us.

And it's also anti-inflammatory, antimicrobial, and those two properties help really heal wounds quickly. So it reduces the inflammation rapidly, and then it makes it so that you don't have an infection. That's how it keeps the baby healthy as well.

SAL DAHER: Okay. So it's sort of magical ingredients from the placenta, which has been developed through evolution over millions of years, to make this amazingly effective material, which doesn't have rejection problems. And I understand that allografts, placental allografts, have been used for a long time, maybe 100 years?

It Even Grows Hair at the Wound Site!

AMANDA DROBNIS: Yes, that's correct. They've been used for almost 100 years, with no adverse reactions reported, which is pretty phenomenal for any type of regenerative therapy. They really didn't learn how to use it as an injectable right away, that didn't happen until the early 2000s. So now that we have this ability to use the fluid and the placenta, it's a much better product and it has a lot more uses, so that, now that we can inject it, you can use it for all sorts of things, as opposed to just the patch membrane which you could really just put over a wound.

SAL DAHER: So the progress has been around production of the extraction of the right proteins and so forth, and also about delivery, improved delivery and so forth. That's the big breakthrough since the 2000s.

AMANDA DROBNIS: That's correct.

SAL DAHER: I'm just curious, these allografts, it sounds like really magical stuff. Can you use it to grow hair or something?

Amanda Drobnis:It does sound magical, but we don't wanna say that it's magic.

Sal Daher: [crosstalk 00:25:38].

AMANDA DROBNIS: We don't wanna oversell it, but we have seen it used for hair regrowth. On some of our horses that we've treated with wounds, typically their hair can grow back white like a scar, and instead we're seeing that it grows back the same color, and it grows back quickly, so you don't even see the scar tissue underneath.

SAL DAHER: So the same color of the horse it's injected-

AMANDA DROBNIS: Yeah, the same color as the horse-

SAL DAHER: Not the horse from which it came-

AMANDA DROBNIS: Right, not the [crosstalk 00:26:02]. Same color as the horse, it's showing that the tissue is regenerating back to exactly as it was before the injury with that same color hair, which is really neat.

SAL DAHER: This is really fascinating. I guess it's a lot of advantage, taking technology that's already existing in humans, that's well-developed, and then taking it to animals. Because it usually goes the other way. I looked at a company recently that, because it's so expensive to get FDA approval for human treatment, they're applying their technology to animals for some years, and hoping that eventually they'll go to humans. You're going the other way, so you can coast a little bit from the discoveries on the human side.

AMANDA DROBNIS: Yeah, we are going the other way, which is starting to be more of a trend as well. But veterinarians have been using the allografts, the placental allografts, they've been taking it themselves when a baby is born, and cleaning it and storing it and hoping they remember to use it.

SAL DAHER: When an animal baby is born.

AMANDA DROBNIS: When an animal baby is born. They've been doing that for a while, but that's pretty time-consuming, and we don't actually attend animal births usually. So I'm hoping that with their former knowledge of having used the placental allograft, that goes back to that question you asked earlier, with this former knowledge of how they used to collect it and stored it, now they can just grab it. And so hopefully they remember-

SAL DAHER: Off the shelf.

AMANDA DROBNIS: Off the shelf, yeah. So hopefully they remember that it was such a good product then, but now it's much better because they don't have to do anything to get it.

SAL DAHER: Do you have a production facility already?

AMANDA DROBNIS: We are working in Mansfield, we do have a lab space in Mansfield. It's just very small at this point.

SAL DAHER: I think there are funds for companies that are setting up production facilities in Massachusetts, I'm sure you can-

AMANDA DROBNIS: Yes, we started to look for that. We don't need a very large lab space just yet, we'll get there though.

SAL DAHER: So, what's the work process? You have the placentas brought in from horses that have delivered recently?

AMANDA DROBNIS: Yeah, we work with a veterinarian at a reproductive facility, where she's attending all the births of all the horses, we're starting with horses like I said. So we're working with that horse vet, and she's always there, when she collects the placenta then she sends it on to us, and we clean it and process it and do our thing, and then we make it available to the public.

SAL DAHER: Tremendous. Amanda Drobnis, I'm so happy you made time in your busy schedule to do this interview.

AMANDA DROBNIS: Thanks for having me, it was a great time, thank you.

SAL DAHER: It's great fun to sit down with you and chat. Listeners, if you've enjoyed this podcast, please review it on iTunes. Amanda, if you can, please do a review on iTunes if you use it.

AMANDA DROBNIS: I absolutely will.

SAL DAHER: Awesome, you heard it here, she's on record. And if you wanna write to me with suggestions, you can write me at sal@angelinvestboston.com with critiques or suggestions. Do sign up for future events at our website. This is Angel Invest Boston, conversations with Boston's most interesting angels and founders. I'm Sal Daher.

I'm glad you were able to join us. Our engineer is Raul Rosa. Our theme was composed by John McKusick. Our graphic design is by Katharine Woodman-Maynard. Our host is coached by Grace Daher.