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4,000 people per year die in the US from uncontrolled epilepsy, many of them young. Vivek Ganesh and Jay Shah started Neurava to build sensors and algorithms to prevent such deaths. Here’s my chat with these doctoral candidates from Purdue trying to bring their tech from the lab to the market.
Click here for full episode transcript.
Highlights:
Sal Daher Introduces Vivek Ganesh and Jay Shah of Neurava
“looking to develop a wearable device for epilepsy patients at risk for sudden unexpected death”
The 40% of Epilepsy Patients with Uncontrolled Epilepsy Are at Risk of Sudden Death
People Who Die from Uncontrolled Epilepsy Tend to Be Young
The Neurava Algorithm and Device Are Meant to Detect SUDEP as It’s Occurring So the Patient Can Get Help
Neurava Has Top Advisors on the Technology and on the Clinical Aspects
Neurava Is Hoping to Test Its Devices on Patients at Epilepsy Monitoring Units
Patients Whose Epilepsy Is Still Uncontrolled After the Administration of Three or More Drugs Are Referred to Surgery
Another Strategy to Control Epilepsy Is the Implantation of “Pacemakers” for the Brain
Patients with Uncontrolled Epilepsy Have to Wait Months to Get into an Epilepsy Monitoring Unit
Founders’ Entrepreneurial Journey
“My grandfather used to have a toothbrush factory out in India…”
“Epilepsy and SUDEP in specific is one area where there really wasn't anything that people are using.”
“Our relationship is very strong; we work very well together.”
People with Uncontrolled Epilepsy Should Reach out to Neurava.org
Closing Thoughts from Vivek Ganesh and Jay Shah
Transcript of “Controlling Epilepsy”
Guests: Vivek Ganesh and Jay Shah
Sal Daher: This podcast is brought to you by Peter Fasse, patent attorney, and Fish & Richardson. The biggest assets of a startup are its team and its intellectual property. Make the most out of the great efforts of your team by getting the best advice on building your intellectual property portfolio. I urge you to check out Peter Fasse, patent attorney at Fish & Richardson. Fish & Richardson is the foremost patent law firm and you should not skimp on patent advice.
Sal Daher Introduces Vivek Ganesh and Jay Shah of Neurava
Welcome to Angel Invest Boston, conversations with Boston's most interesting angel investors and founders. I'm Sal Daher, an angel who is tremendously curious about how great startup companies are built. Today, I had the privilege of speaking with two doctoral candidates at Purdue University. Say hi, Jay Shah, and Vivek Ganesh. Gentlemen.
Vivek Ganesh: Hi, everyone. My name is Vivek. I'm happy to be here and on this podcast with you, Sal.
Jay Shah: Hey, Sal, happy to be here as well. Thanks for having us. This is Jay.
Sal Daher: Jay is acting as a CEO, they're two co-founders of a company called Neurava. I will ask you guys to say who you are, and then tell us what Neurava does, what problem it's addressing.
“looking to develop a wearable device for epilepsy patients at risk for sudden unexpected death”
Vivek Ganesh: Absolutely. My name is Vivek again. I co-founded Neurava along with my colleague, Jay. We are actually looking to develop a wearable device for epilepsy patients at risk for sudden unexpected death in epilepsy or SUDEP, which can save thousands of lives. Delighted to be here to tell you about how we are looking to give back control to patients with uncontrolled epilepsy in the form of this wearable device.
Sal Daher: Unpack for us a little bit what the problem of uncontrolled epilepsy is that you guys are addressing?
The 40% of Epilepsy Patients with Uncontrolled Epilepsy Are at Risk of Sudden Death
Vivek Ganesh: Absolutely. Here in the United States about three and a half million people actually suffer from epilepsy. It's actually a much bigger number worldwide. I think closer estimates are 50 million to 65 million. Epilepsy patients, of course, have seizures and almost 40% of them have seizures that cannot be controlled with commonly used seizure-reducing drugs. All of these patients are at risk for what's known as sudden unexpected death or SUDEP, which actually claims about 4,000 lives every year in the US alone.
It's a risk factor. Specifically, the more seizures you have, the higher the occurrence of those seizures are, the frequency, the severity, et cetera. SUDEP is a bigger concern for these patients. Overall, the entire population is at risk for this. There's currently no device on the market that monitors a patient's impending SUDEP risk and so we're trying to solve that.
People Who Die from Uncontrolled Epilepsy Tend to Be Young
Jay Shah: In addition to that, SUDEP claims a lot of young people's lives. It claims about 101,000 years of potential life are lost just from those 4,000 deaths in the US alone. It's early age, teenage young adults that are affected the most and so there is a pretty big burden on the economy as well.
Sal Daher: Is it known what the exact cause of death is? Is it people stop breathing? What happens?
Vivek Ganesh: That's actually a great question that you ask and something that a lot of research is being put in to figure out the exact mechanism or mechanisms of action because it may be more than just one. From what we're understanding so far, there are a few different mechanisms that come into the picture based on each individual's presentation. One such mechanism is something that we have discovered out of our lab here at Purdue University and why our company and how our company really began.
Really, what's been widely accepted are a few cardiac and respiratory dysfunctions that do occur prior to a sudden death event. Regardless of the mechanism, in and of itself, these ultimate events like cardiac dysfunctions and respiratory actually still happen. Going through the MOA (mechanisms of action), there are a few different proposals, one of which is a difficulty breathing.
You have the nervous system and the pathways involved in respiratory action for every person, they're impaired as a seizure begins and so you actually have a lot of breathing difficulties in these patients. Because most of this occurs at night, then you have a really high risk and a high chance of dying when it's severe enough.
Sal Daher: What are the biomarkers that you're looking for to predict this?
Vivek Ganesh: What we're looking for, it's an ongoing process as we're continuing to gather more and more data. I can't go too specifics into the individual biomarkers for reasons I'm just disclosing that IP. I'm sure you've heard that a million times from other startups as well at this stage. Our patent is still pending so we'd like to just hold off on that discussion if possible. Really, what we're looking for, seizures and then other abnormalities linked to SUDEP is what we're looking to identify.
Sal Daher: Basically, you want to have a patent-protected algorithm for predicting. Are you going to have clinical trials to validate that algorithm as predictive?
Vivek Ganesh: Yes. Ultimately, we would be doing that. We're following a different approach with our regulatory in the sense where we still want to get the device out to patients as quickly as possible because they can really benefit from a wearable device like what we're looking to make that covers seizures and other dysfunctions associated with SUDEP. Ultimately, for the SUDEP risk aspect, we would have clinical trials that validate our SUDEP detection algorithm and its ability to predict and detect SUDEP before it happens.
Jay Shah: One other thing on that as well, it's I wouldn't necessarily call it predictive because a lot of people will associate prediction as a biomarker that I can detect something a day or two days or something.
Sal Daher: It says it's happening right now.
Jay Shah: Yes, exactly.
Sal Daher: You're in danger right now of SUDEP?
Vivek Ganesh: Correct.
The Neurava Algorithm and Device Are Meant to Detect SUDEP as It’s Occurring So the Patient Can Get Help
Jay Shah: Correct. It's a dysfunction detection monitor. Our device would be a wearable with an algorithm that the secret sauce is the algorithm. Those two combined would allow us to detect when something like this is going to occur or about to occur. Then, based on if that's about to occur, we can alert a caregiver that can come in and give some intervention like CPR or calling emergency services. Something like that can then prevent this from actually causing death.
Sal Daher: This has been Jay speaking. Interesting. Now, Jay, you both are brilliant electrical engineers. Do you have medical collaborators or advisors? Are you working with a medical center?
Neurava Has Top Advisors on the Technology and on the Clinical Aspects
Jay Shah: In addition to Vivek and I, we have a strong advisory team behind us. We have our professor here, Dr. Pedro Irazoqui. He's done countless years of research in medical devices and epilepsy. He knows the field really well from a technology perspective. On the clinical side, we have the two main advisors right now, Dr. William Nobis from Vanderbilt University, and Dr. George Richardson from the University of Iowa.
Both of them are leading experts on the field of SUDEP. They have publications on SUDEP and the different mechanisms behind it and things like that. They have their own EMUs. What our plan is when once we're at that stage, we're going to put our prototype in those EMUs and start collecting data with that.
Sal Daher: What are EMUs?
Neurava Is Hoping to Test Its Devices on Patients at Epilepsy Monitoring Units
Jay Shah: EMUs are Epilepsy Monitoring Units, sorry, it's an acronym that Vivek and I use on the daily. Epilepsy Monitoring Units. Those are read where when seizure reducing drugs don't work, patients go to Epilepsy Monitoring Units to be able to figure out where their seizures are located in a different strategy. When they go there, the idea is usually that they'll either have to do surgery or implant a device such as VNS from LivaNova or NeuroPace, things like that. They go there to be able to do that. Getting our product into those patients is our best way to enter the market.
Sal Daher: Vivek and Jay, would you please walk me through what is the current state of things in terms of how the problem is dealt with at present and what it is that your device and algorithm hopes to do to improve that current situation?
Patients Whose Epilepsy Is Still Uncontrolled After the Administration of Three or More Drugs Are Referred to Surgery
Vivek Ganesh: Currently, in patients that have epilepsy and suffer from seizures, the initial course of action is to administer commonly used seizure-reducing drugs. The idea is let's get your seizures under control as quickly as possible. The lower your incidence of seizures, the lower is your just overall risk. The current standard is to try three or more drugs and if a patient does not see any relief from those drugs, then you essentially are classified as refractory epilepsy or someone that does not respond to seizure-reducing drugs. That threshold there is three or more drugs.
At this point, you now become essentially a candidate for alternative strategies, predominantly being either brain surgery so resection. They like to identify where in the brain these seizures might be originating from and if it is an area that you can live without and whether we can do a surgical approach and take those sections off. The second possible solution is the use of an implantable device the likes of which massive companies like LivaNova or NeuroPace make. Those devices, we implant them. They administer stimulation to these affected areas of the brain and the idea is we can stop a seizure from occurring.
Another Strategy to Control Epilepsy Is the Implantation of “Pacemakers” for the Brain
Sal Daher: Like a pacemaker for the brain.
Vivek Ganesh: Exactly. Those are primarily, I guess you will, three different strategies that patients have for seizures, either drugs or surgery or implantable device. Now our device really fits into this picture because not only are patients at risk for SUDEP, but for those patients that cannot or don't respond to those drugs, they have to wait a really long time before they can actually get into an epilepsy monitoring unit. That waiting time is usually one to five months.
Patients with Uncontrolled Epilepsy Have to Wait Months to Get Into an Epilepsy Monitoring Unit
Jay and I have actually interviewed at this point more than 100 people and each of them have explained to us how they've had difficulty just getting that initial appointment into the EMU because there are just so few centers that can actually do this sort of a workup on patients. We monitor the same signals that an epilepsy monitoring unit would typically look for.
That allows us to provide positions with a better understanding of each individual's unique presentation before they actually show up to the epilepsy monitoring unit. Not only are we monitoring their SUDEP risk in the period that they're waiting and for as long as their seizures are uncontrolled, but we're also sending all of this data to the primary care team and that can expedite the process.
Sal Daher: Would you like to talk a little bit about where you are in terms of development of your device and your software? You mentioned that you have a patent that's pending.
Vivek Ganesh: Absolutely. We currently have developed prototypes of three of the four major sensors that we use to do the monitoring that we'd like to do. We're actually currently collecting acute animal data with these sensors and validating them with reference, gold standard equipment, and the initial data is really, really exciting. We're very excited to see data sensors are working very well, nearly 90% accuracy with all of the other reference devices we're using. At the same time, we're working on the fourth sensor and integrating everything into a fully wireless system.
We've established some really exciting partnerships at this stage that are allowing us to further develop our prototype, and at the same time, of course, as all startups do, were fundraising actively at this stage and that's something that we're actually in the process of hopefully closing out around here pretty soon for our seed stage. That'll set us up really nicely to continue developing our prototype as we look into a Series A further down the line.
Sal Daher: Excellent. You mentioned that you guys have filed for a patent. I just want to put in a plug for the sponsor of this podcast who is Peter Fasse, a partner at Fish & Richardson. He's also the patent attorney for Savran Technologies. Cagri Savran connected us and Peter has been very helpful to Savran. In addition to doing the patent work, he's helped put together their raise. Cagri I'm sure has no problem saying that.
Also, it connected him with strategic players and so forth. This is kind of the patent attorney that Peter Fasse is. If a life science startup or a multinational, because Peter has both kinds of clients, they should think very hard about the possibility of using Peter Fasse at Fish & Richardson in Boston, who is a sponsor of this podcast, also happens to be my brother-in-law. I'm saying this not because he gives me money to sponsor the podcast, [chuckles] not because he's my brother-in-law, because I've heard people enthuse about how great he is at as evidenced by what Cagri will say about him.
Founders’ Entrepreneurial Journey
Anyway, gentlemen, let's talk now a little bit about your entrepreneurial journey. Jay, you were born to an Indian family in Texas, and Vivek, you had a more foreign excursion in your life before you got here. Please tell us a little bit about your biographies and how you came by being entrepreneurs. Instead of just going out and making a tremendous salary, two brilliant liquid engineers, you guys can just go out and make great salaries. Why are you going and enduring all this penury and all these headaches and so forth to start the startup? Who wants to take that first?
Vivek Ganesh: I'll let Jay go.
Sal Daher: Jay, give us the Jay story. The Jay back story.
Jay Shah: [chuckles] Sure. Thanks, great question, Sal. I grew up out in Texas, out in Houston, did my undergrad at University of Texas at Austin. I've always been interested in entrepreneurship and taking a device from the lab into clinical use. One of the big things that I got interested in was that translational aspect of research, not only just making something in the lab and don't actually make it take all the way, get it out into the market.
That's what I'm really interested in. Some of this research from our lab, this opportunity came up, we both jumped on it in the sense that, hey, this is a way for us to be able to actually improve the lives of these epilepsy patients and actually work on creating something.
“My grandfather used to have a toothbrush factory out in India…”
Then just the business aspect of it, I've always just been inclined to it. My grandfather used to have a toothbrush factory out in India and my dad and my other grandfather always been interested in stocks in the market. Just from an early age, I've always been interested in the winds of the market. Combining those two things together, that's what led me to this and my passion for entrepreneurship and medical devices.
Sal Daher: Vivek, you want to tell the Vivek backstory?
Vivek Ganesh: I can do that. May not be as great as Jay. He took a lot of words from what I would like to say, of course, in terms of the translational aspect, but of course, that's a major reason. It's always great to see research that we believe is so cutting edge, actually taking that to market and having it impact people's lives. Epilepsy and SUDEP in specific is one area where there really wasn't anything that people are using.
“Epilepsy and SUDEP in specific is one area where there really wasn't anything that people are using.”
When you talk to these customers and understand what they face and when you are in that position that we're in to actually help them out, it's just something that really you end up wanting to do. From my perspective, I grew up actually some from India and I actually grew up in Africa, in Nigeria. A lot of my background comes from there. I came here to the US at this point about 7 years ago.
Sal Daher: Whereabouts in Nigeria did you grow up?
Vivek Ganesh: In Lagos actually.
Sal Daher: In Lagos? I've been to Lagos.
Vivek Ganesh: That's awesome. My favorite place in the world, lots of fond memories of course.
Sal Daher: What brought you to Nigeria?
Vivek Ganesh: My family. My family moved there in the '80s. My dad moved out of India. Job opportunities were better at that point and so they moved there, and then that's pretty much where I grew up and spent my whole life before coming here to the US. I came here in 2013, did my undergrad at Purdue as well. I've basically been at Purdue my whole life here in the US. Did my undergrad work for a year, came back to grad school. That's when, like Jay mentioned, the opportunity came up to commercialize this exciting research and we hopped on it.
Sal Daher: Tremendous. Now, the major reason startups fail for real is the founders give up. This is always. You can say, "We're going to be monitoring SUDEP and so forth," but then somehow you discover that doesn't work and then you might pivot to something else and you discover you're going to be monitoring something else slightly adjacent. Jay said that you can really do that. Who knows? I don't have an opinion on this. I'm just theorizing. The reality is that the commitment of the founders is really the biggest predictor of success. You're dealing with two really brilliant guys. Obviously,
Vivek Ganesh: Thank you. [chuckles]
Sal Daher: Really, you guys have to ask yourselves, are we going to be going through this misery of starting a company? We could spend 2 or 3 years, 4 years building this company, and then it goes nowhere. Then we're just back in the job market. It's not time wasted because you've done something. You've worked on an important problem.
That's the question you have to ask yourself because someone like Cagri is tremendously committed to as an investor in Savran and a board member, I see how committed Cagri is to make that startup work. He goes through tremendous headaches and tremendous privations and worries and so forth to get that to go. Starting your entrepreneurial journey, you guys have to understand that this is the key to success, that commitment.
Everything else you can get somehow. You can go out and get a little money here, get a little advice there and everything, but you guys are the engine of the company. If you can prove that, if you can show that you guys are really committed and that you're going to be with it through thick and thin, it makes your whole venture much, much more credible, much more bankable. I think I see signs of that, I think that you guys are very motivated.
“Our relationship is very strong, we work very well together.”
Jay Shah: Great point. Vivek and I both worked at other startups. That just really helped us understand how startups function, ways to get successful ways to pitfalls to avoid. When we saw that commitment and when we started the company, she and I had had that talk and we're committed to see this through and take it as far as we can. Also, another great thing I think about us and Neurava is just mine and Vivek's relationship. Our relationship is very strong, we work very well together. I think having that connection and building that with Vivek I think is going to be a great opportunity for us and we see success down the tunnel.
Sal Daher: That's another reason why companies fail. Founders get to a point where they can't stand to be with each other. They're fighting all the time and the thing doesn't work. If you have a good constructive relationship that's complimentary-- The other thing is also, you have to think that you're going to have to add, right now as it has to be, your company is very engineering heavy. You have two engineers.
You're going to need more talent coming in later. Right now this is all you can afford, and this is what you need, but you're going to have to be broad enough to accept that. I think this sounds very promising. Tell me about your work. You mentioned that you've worked in another startup before.
Jay Shah: Yes, without going into too much detail, that startup was also working on a therapeutic device and I was helping build the technology and running and executing clinical trials. I just learned a lot of going to a clinical trial running that, seeing when things may fail, and just getting a better sense of how much work you have to put in to see something through. I think that gave me an appreciation for startups and other founders and learning from that experience in a positive way, a few things upon that and are going really well, but using that as a way of understanding what I know of what I'm going to be going into and what I've committed myself to.
Sal Daher: Excellent. You know the cost you're paying going into this? You know the pain and so you're prepared to take that, which is really good. You have a good working relationship. You guys have a realistic sense. Have you run across any competition?
Vivek Ganesh: So far not really. The signal that we're trying to record and what we're looking to detect, et cetera, of course, there may be other sensors. There's always more sensors, there's always more wearables. Wearables are a tough market for the very reason that a lot of people try to get into it, but from a clinical standpoint and what we're looking for and for epilepsy and SUDEP specifically, there actually isn't and that's really what allowed us to get in and the differentiation that we have in our algorithm and the way we look at things and the patent that we have pending and the mechanism behind why we do what we do and how we do it really gives us an edge over anybody that tries to do the same thing.
Sal Daher: Very good. It sounds even more promising opportunity. I know Purdue has a very supportive environment for startups. Wade Lange told me that after MIT and Columbia, Purdue produces the most startups, faculty, or student-related startups of any university in the US. You guys are very lucky to be in that environment and having this supportive team around you, pushing for you.
Vivek Ganesh: Absolutely, that's been great.
Closing Thoughts from Vivek Ganesh and Jay Shah
Sal Daher: Do either one of you have particular things that you want to get across to our listeners? Our listeners are typically people who work at startups, founders, and also angels, people who are investing in startups or who are thinking about investing in startups. What do you want to say to this audience?
Vivek Ganesh: In terms of getting across to the audience, we always looking to learn more about our market and hear from customers and get their feedback on what their actual paying points are. We've done a lot of research on our end to design this product for meeting the requirements and so it's been very helpful for us getting feedback from people and being people reaching out through our website, for example, to tell us their story and how they might use this product improve their situations. That has been something that has been very, very important for us in this development stage as we try to develop a product that is ultimately usable by our customers.
At the same time, something that we always look for as well is, as you mentioned earlier, we have a good team of engineers and some great advisors, but taking a product all the way to market and on the business side of things is also a different challenge and something that we're always looking to get more advice and feedback and connect with individuals that have experienced doing this in the way that we'd like to do it as well. It's great given how young Jay and I are and as first-time founders and where we are right now, we're really grateful and excited to have taken it this far and we want to continue to do so and getting advice from the people that have experienced doing this is something that has really helped us get to this point.
People with Uncontrolled Epilepsy Should Reach out to Neurava.org
Sal Daher: Vivek, basically, what you're saying is you're reaching out to people who might be at risk for SUDEP to contact you at neurava.org and to tell you about their experience, to help you design the user experience and also, to inform you in other ways. Also, you're looking for people who are in the medical device space, who develop medical devices. You're looking for people who have experience on the research side.
To compliment your advisors, you need help on that side as well. If there are people who are interested in this space, they should reach out to Vivek or Jay at neurava.org. N-E-U-R-A-V-A dot O-R-G and offer your help because this is something that has the potential to save 4,000 lives a year, which is [chuckles] a tremendous thing. One life is an incalculable loss, and especially, young people. This is something which affects young people. If you have a skill or if you have a problem, this is a call out to you. Jay, do you have any further thoughts?
Jay Shah: I think Vivek covered a great amount. We're always looking to talk to more patients, learn from their experiences. We want to make sure that what we're designing and building is something patients will actually use and will want. Any feedback that we can get from patients and physicians is always beneficial. In the startup world, it's never I'm going to build one prototype, make changes, and then have my final version. It's always an iterative process and that's something that we've learned. Any patient that wants to talk more, learn about what we're trying to do, or wants to share their experiences, please do. We always have open ears.
Sal Daher: I wonder if you guys could not create a community for people with epilepsy to have regular chats. Who knows? Clubhouse, you can have your clubhouse conversation. Also, think about maybe something like a crowdfunding campaign from people who have the problem, who might want to contribute to help you get your guys off the ground. I can tell you if I had the problem, [chuckles] I would certainly feel like writing you a cheque because this is a pretty good bet, especially a young person if you're running around with this Sword of Damocles hanging over your head, that all of a sudden your young life could be cut short.
I have a colleague who is Type 1 diabetic and type 1 diabetic, a lot of them are young people. It's diabetes that has to do with autoimmune destruction of the ability to produce insulin. It's not insulin resistance like older people. Those people are tremendously motivated. There's a foundation for it and I'm just wondering if there isn't space here for a SUDEP. Is there a SUDEP of foundation that you guys could reach out to? Have you reached out to them?
Jay Shah: That's a great point and to add on to that there are societies and things like that where patients can go and talk together. There are local communities and things like that so American Epilepsy Society is a big epilepsy foundation, there's Epilepsy Foundation. They have their own groups, they're big. They also have conferences. What we've learned is that the epilepsy community is a very tight-knit and niche community where they interact with each other, talk to each other about different products, what works, what hasn't worked.
We've been in talks to try to talk to more people like that and get involved that way as well.
Sal Daher: Good. You're covering that base as well. To encapsulate, what we have here is we have a problem that causes the death of 4,000 people a year. Those people tend to skew young, have losing lives of very young people who are otherwise healthy but have this problem with epilepsy, which is the abnormal discharges in the brain, people have seizures. If that problem is addressed, epileptics can do amazing things. They have people with all kinds of talents and so on.
This is a problem right now, which is constrained by capacity, these intervention centers where they can go and do deep studies, and so forth. They're not enough of them. You can address the problem, someone is having one of these events and you can say the person's having that event. You have a device and so this is why there's a good reason or rationale for having the device. No one else has a device of this type so you see an opportunity and you've put together advisors and so forth.
This is a very interesting venture, Neurava LLC atneurava.org. I encourage everyone who's interested to check out these energetic, capable, brilliant young founders, two doctoral candidates at Purdue in electrical engineering, just off the charts brilliant and they're both [chuckles] smiling, but big shy about it. Their moms taught them well.
Jay Shah: Thank you. [chuckles]
Sal Daher: I can see. This is very heartening to see two people so committed at such a young stage in their lives to do something so significant.
Vivek Ganesh: Absolutely.
Sal Daher: Jay Shah and Vivek Ganesh, very grateful to you for coming on the Angel Invest Boston and telling us about your interesting startup.
Jay Shah: Thank you so much, Sal, I really appreciate your time and interviewing us. We had a great talk today and appreciate it. We're looking forward to working on our device and getting it to market so we can help patients with uncontrolled epilepsy take back control of their lives.
Sal Daher: Excellent.
Vivek Ganesh: Absolutely. Thank you so much, Sal. This has been a fantastic experience talking about our product, our journey, where we are in our lifecycle, and also putting the word out to the general public that, hopefully, if there are any people listening to this, that have epilepsy, that they're not alone, that we're thinking of solving their needs and providing a device that currently doesn't exist and excited to see what the future holds.
Sal Daher: Excellent gentlemen. This is Angel Invest Boston. I'm Sal Daher. I'm glad you were able to join us. Our engineer is Raul Rosa. Our theme is composed by John McKusick. Our graphic design is by Katharine Woodman-Maynard. Our host is coached by Grace Daher.